Czech Absinth & Mint

Mint

I thought this might be of interest to the researchers:

I was just reading an article from http://www.thujone.info discussing the chemical in absinthe.

What struck me was this text, the sixth paragraph in the “definition of pre-ban absinthe” section:

“Typical historic recipes are given in the books of Duplais [30], Fritsch [27], Bedel [31] and de Brevans [28]. The composition of herbs used along with the wormwood differs from recipe to recipe. To improve the taste or add coloring, anise, star anise, lemon balm, hyssop, juniper, nutmeg, veronica, angelica root, melissa, coriander, camomile or parsley were added. Each country produced its own types of absinthe. For example, in the Czech Republic, peppermint was added, but neither anise nor fennel. In Switzerland, melissa, hyssop or angelica root were added to the Swiss alpine wormwood, which was a valued ingredient due to its strong aroma [32], while in France, coriander was added.”

Note the source numbers. I checked the references section at the end of the PDF, and numbers 27, 28, 30, and 31 correspond respectively with publications from the years 1891, 1908, 1882, and 1899. I certainly would like to see these sources, but their dates can be safely assumed to be authentic. And why not?

So what am I getting at with all this research? This quote:

“For example, in the Czech Republic, peppermint was added, but neither anise nor fennel.”
It must come from one of those antique source materials.

17 responses to “Czech Absinth & Mint

  1. WHAT ABSINTHE IS MADE OF

    July 26, 1903, Sunday
    J.B.O.

    To the Editor of The New York Times: In your esteemed paper of the 24th I find an article from The Chattanooga Times entitled “The Use of Utilizing Mint,” which says that in the manufacturing of creme de menthe at least five distillations are necessary. Permit me, Sir, to say that this is an error…….

    $.4.95 to read a letter from 1903 at the New York Times archive!

    Dans le doute-ABSINTHE-toi

  2. You should probably source where you got that, and I wonder why the reply wasn’t posted as well?

  3. No I can’t source it. The post was in a thread which also discussed (disgust) absinthe and *n*l sex, and I do not think the people here want to read that kind of thing. If the Swiss want to talk like that they can, but it’s not allowed here. Someone emailed it over through the contact box.

    What was the reply anyway? Was the gentleman wrong?

  4. Well it’s a myspace post, and a new thread at a different group was started just for it. It quotes “Absinthism: a fictitious 19th century syndrome”

    The reply (I find it interesting the person who sent it to your contact box left out) was that none of those sources are for the czech absinth claim. When one of the writers of the paper was asked he said the czech claim comes from Czech importers. The same people who have yet to back it up.

    It’s one blemish in an overall good paper.

  5. Now I am getting confused! I thought the paper had historical references, who wrote the paper? Oxygenie?

  6. Oh yes who is this Dirk W Lachenmeier? I was told he was a vet! That isn’t right is it?

  7. The paper has historical references, none of them reference czech absinth, it is unsourced in the paper.

  8. Ari: Unfortunately not. None of those sources are for the Czech claim. I e-mailed one of the authors of that paper to ask for a specific source and he said they based it on the claims of czech importers. The same claims many of us question and which no evidence has been provided for.

    You know this guy, Ari? Is he a vet?

  9. I’m not surprised that other herbs were used for absinthe as it is a traditional practice in France, even now.

  10. Dr Lachenmeier is a senior researcher at the German state food and beverage research institute in Karlsruhe affiliated with the University of Heidelberg. He’s trained as a food scientist and toxicologist, and his special focus area is spirits and other alcoholic drinks. The same institute has divisions investigating various foodstuffs, milk, vitamin supplements, cosmetics, wine, non-alcoholic drinks, food parasites, and animal diseases that can be passed into the human food chain. It’s the most sophisticated laboratory of its kind in Europe.

    The quote you reference is unsourced, and does not come from any of the circa 1900 references listed, none of which mention Czech absinthe at all. Surprisingly, there’s also no mention of Angolan armagnac, Nicaraguan cognac, Tahitian vodka or Korean slivovitz.

  11. Thanks for the information, Oxy.

    I enjoy your rapier wit!🙂 Angolan armagnac! LOL.

    On a more serious note I heard that there was a Korean absinthe manufacturer in the 50s. Is that true? Just idle curiosity.

    Join me in a virtual drink? Nice louched glass of Absinthium 1792, or a Bairnsfather Absinth Bitter? Good value too if you buy in Prague! You won’t be needing matches I assume😉

  12. Good Evening.

    Eric was unable to answer repeated questions about Dr Lachenmeier, I assume that it wasn’t part of his script. Thank you to Oxygenee for the information. Can he tell us where the pre ban bottles originated? Were they donated by someone in the industry? Who suggested these tests? Dr Lachenmeier did this study of his own volition, did he?

    I’ll join you with some virtual homemade Pelinkovac.

    Cocktail hour talk: What’s Afrikaans for wormwood?

  13. Cocktail hour….L’Heure Verte or ZelenĂĄ Hodinka🙂

  14. I am looking for an accurate translation from what appears to be words written by a real La Bleue distiller in the Val de Travers:

    Ben moi je vous dirai qu’en novembre 2005, on a sorti une absinthe Duvallon avec 42 mg. thuyone par kg d’alcool ! Et pourtant, il n’y avait que dix grammes d’herbe de grande absinthe sauvage du Val-de-Travers par litre d’alcool Ă  96% vol. (mais le dĂ©flegmateur de l’alambic a redistillĂ© la queue…).

    Absinthe invendable, le taux Ă©tant fixĂ© Ă  35 mg / kg d’alcool. (analyse du laboratoire officiel de NeuchĂątel – en Suisse). On a donc redistillĂ© une cuite avec trĂšs peu d’absinthe et on a mĂ©langĂ©.
    Taux: 22,5 mg thuyone / kg. Vendable et bonne.
    Mais je vous avouerai que la dĂ©gustation avec celle Ă  42 mg/kg a donnĂ© des surprises qui en disent long sur l’interdiction de l’absinthe en 1910 en Suisse et 1915 en France.
    1. Premier verre: c’est fort mais bon.
    2. Second verre: ca commence Ă  faire chauffer la tĂȘte.
    3. TroisiÚme: on contredit systématiquement tous les invités autour de la table.
    4. QuatriĂšme verre: celui qui n’est d’accord avec moi est un con et j’ai envie de la mettre Ă  la porte.
    5. CinquiĂšme verre: je vais me coucher avant de casser la vaisselle.
    6. Le lendemain, je demande gĂȘnĂ© Ă  me femme si je n’ai pas Ă©tĂ© un peu con et agressif le soir prĂ©cĂ©dent.
    7. Elle confirme, poliment, n’Ă©tant pas sĂ»re que les effets de la thuyone soient passĂ©s, que j’Ă©tais quelque peu irrascible. (euphĂ©misme)

    Alors, l’absinthe thĂšque Ă  129 mg nous conduit tout droit vers une nouvelle interdiction. De mĂȘme que le taux d’alcool qui, Ă  mon sens, ne devrait pas dĂ©passer les 55 % vol.

    Comme dans toute rĂ©volution (la libĂ©ralisation de l’absinthe), on commence Ă  voir des excĂšs.

    Pensez-vous sincĂšrement que d’aucuns vont pouvoir se birturer agressif avec la fĂ©e verte sans qu’un nouveau drame se produise ? (qui sera relayĂ© largement par les mĂ©dias).

    Pensez-vous que ceux qui mĂšnent la croisade anti-tabac vont tolĂ©rer longtemps les bitures Ă  l’absinthe ?

    Posez la question, c’est y rĂ©pondre.

    Je ne peux que conseiller aux distillateurs responsables de ne pas trop presser sur la pĂ©dale de la thuyone et des degrĂ©s d’alcool.

    L’absinthe n’est pas un alcool “aimable”. Il a un effet stupĂ©fiant Ă  haute dose. La thuyone n’est pas seule en cause. Le mĂ©lange des diverses plantes et graines est dĂ©tonnant. Au 19e siĂšcle, on qualifiait l’absinthe d’opium du peuple. Je ne suis pas moraliste. C’est juste une mise en garde.

    Also given Eric’s scripted crusade on thujone, how come the French authoritiest list it as “HallucinogĂšne:

    http://inseme.free.fr/LES%20SUBSTANCES%20PSYCHOACTIVES%20web.htm

    Mod: If you put links in posts then the Askimet dragon grabs them and jumbles them up😩

  15. Here you are:

    Ben moi je vous dirai qu’en novembre 2005, on a sorti une absinthe Duvallon avec 42 mg. thuyone par kg d’alcool ! Et pourtant, il n’y avait que dix grammes d’herbe de grande absinthe sauvage du Val-de-Travers par litre d’alcool Ă  96% vol. (mais le dĂ©flegmateur de l’alambic a redistillĂ© la queue
).
    -I would say that in November 2005 an Absinthe Duvallon has been produced with 42 mg of thujone per kg of alcohol! Even so, there was only 10g of “wild great absinthe” collected in Val-de-Travers per litre with 96%vol. of alcohol (but the alambic “deflegmator” has redistilled the stem…)

    Absinthe invendable, le taux Ă©tant fixĂ© Ă  35 mg / kg d’alcool. (analyse du laboratoire officiel de NeuchĂątel – en Suisse). On a donc redistillĂ© une cuite avec trĂšs peu d’absinthe et on a mĂ©langĂ©.
    Taux: 22,5 mg thuyone / kg. Vendable et bonne.
    Mais je vous avouerai que la dĂ©gustation avec celle Ă  42 mg/kg a donnĂ© des surprises qui en disent long sur l’interdiction de l’absinthe en 1910 en Suisse et 1915 en France.
    -unsalable Absinthe, the maximum percentage being limited to 35mg/kg of alcohol (official analysis conducted by the NeuchĂątel – en Suisse laboratory). Therefore a cooked amount has been redistilled with very little absinthe and was mixed.
    Percentage: 22.5 mg thujone/kg. Salable and good.
    But I would admit that the degustation conducted on the 42mg/kg has led to many surprises which reveal a lot on the prohibition of absinthe in 1910 in Switzerland and in 1915 in France.
    1. Premier verre: c’est fort mais bon.
    -1. First glass: strong but good
    2. Second verre: ca commence Ă  faire chauffer la tĂȘte.
    -2.Second glass: It starts going to the head (“heating the head”)
    3. TroisiÚme: on contredit systématiquement tous les invités autour de la table.
    -3. Third glass: one contradicts everything said by all guests around the table
    4. Quatriùme verre: celui qui n’est d’accord avec moi est un con et j’ai envie de la mettre à la porte.
    -4. Fourth glass: whoever does not agree with me is a “cunt” and I want to throw him out.
    5. CinquiĂšme verre: je vais me coucher avant de casser la vaisselle.
    -5. Fifth glass: I’m going to bed before I start breaking the crockery (plates et al)
    6. Le lendemain, je demande gĂȘnĂ© Ă  me femme si je n’ai pas Ă©tĂ© un peu con et agressif le soir prĂ©cĂ©dent.
    -6. On the day after I embarrassingly ask my wife if I did not behave like a “cunt” and been obnoxious/aggressive the previous evening.
    7. Elle confirme, poliment, n’étant pas sĂ»re que les effets de la thuyone soient passĂ©s, que j’étais quelque peu irrascible. (euphĂ©misme)
    -7. She confirms, politely, being not sure that the efects of the thujone have cleared up, that I was somewaht irascible (short-tempered). (euphemism)
    Alors, l’absinthe thĂšque Ă  129 mg nous conduit tout droit vers une nouvelle interdiction. De mĂȘme que le taux d’alcool qui, Ă  mon sens, ne devrait pas dĂ©passer les 55 % vol.
    -Therefore Czech Absinthe with 129 mg will undoubtedly lead us to a new prohibition, which, in my opinion, should not contain more than 55%vol.
    Comme dans toute rĂ©volution (la libĂ©ralisation de l’absinthe), on commence Ă  voir des excĂšs.
    -Like in any revolution (liberalization of Absinthe), we begin to witness excess (abuse)
    Pensez-vous sincĂšrement que d’aucuns vont pouvoir se birturer agressif avec la fĂ©e verte sans qu’un nouveau drame se produise ? (qui sera relayĂ© largement par les mĂ©dias).
    -Do you sincerely think that some people can drink themselves blind with the gree fairy without another drama? (which will be widely reported by the media)
    Pensez-vous que ceux qui mĂšnent la croisade anti-tabac vont tolĂ©rer longtemps les bitures Ă  l’absinthe ?
    Do you think that people who lead the crusade against smoking will tolerate absinthe binges any longer?

    Posez la question, c’est y rĂ©pondre.
    -To ask the question is to provide the answer
    Je ne peux que conseiller aux distillateurs responsables de ne pas trop presser sur la pĂ©dale de la thuyone et des degrĂ©s d’alcool.
    -I can anly advise the people in charge of distillation to go easy on thujone and the percentage of alcohol.
    L’absinthe n’est pas un alcool “aimable”. Il a un effet stupĂ©fiant Ă  haute dose. La thuyone n’est pas seule en cause. Le mĂ©lange des diverses plantes et graines est dĂ©tonnant. Au 19e siĂšcle, on qualifiait l’absinthe d’opium du peuple. Je ne suis pas moraliste. C’est juste une mise en garde.
    Absinthe is not a “amiable” alcohol. It entails a very strong narcotic addiction. The thujone is not the sole cause. The mixture including various plants and grains is a highly explosive concoction. In the 19th Century absinthe was called the people’s opium. I am not a moralist. It is just a caution I’m advising.

  16. MERCI BIEN!

  17. You are most welcome!

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